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Jeremy Maggs: The government is currently making changes to proposed new employment equity targets, including scrapping certain targets for African, people of colour, Indian and white workers. You may remember that at the end of last year, the government announced new target proposals that abolished the distinction between local and national targets. Well, there's a lot of criticism on that point. His Kganki Matabane from the Black Business Council explains in detail. First of all, welcome. How do you see this change?
Kuganki Matabane: First, while we support this amendment in principle, we fear that every time the government makes a fuss about doing good things for the previously disadvantaged and the advantaged, it fundamentally changes. I am worried. We have seen this kind of behavior in the past 30 years of democracy, but governments are cowards and there is basically no political will to empower previously disadvantaged people.
They seek to forever please those who were previously favored. Because if you look at this, this is almost rewriting history. Because previously disadvantaged people were not oppressed in the same way. As a result, Africans, people of color, Indians, etc. were further oppressed.
So simply lumping all these categories into one shows a complete lack of awareness of history and what happened.
Jeremy Maggs: So, if these things become reality, what do you think will be the impact?
Kuganki Matabane: Our worry is that once we lump things together like this, it means nothing will be enforced anyway. Because if people are afraid to even make regulations, that means they're not going to introduce the same regulations that change society…again, to please those who had an advantage before. That's part of what you do. The second part is that this is the 26th year since the Employment Equity Act came into force, but we have never seen the government implement the law, and the main reason is that the government does not have enough capacity. For some reason, they are simply forcing the private sector to do things the way they are supposed to be done. To monitor the implementation of any laws.
So we're worried that even if watered-down regulations are passed, they won't be enforced. We will have another 30 years of democracy before we see a snail's pace of change.
So we are really unimpressed with the way the government operates, especially when it comes to laws that are supposed to empower the previously disadvantaged.
Jeremy Maggs: Okay. So when you raise this issue with the Minister of Labor (Thulas Nxesi) or the Ministry of Labor, what do you tell them and what kind of response do you get?
Kuganki Matabane: This is a public comment, so please submit your opinion.
But what we are telling the government is to be bold. Because our biggest, biggest concern is that the longer we delay integrating and bringing the majority into the economy, the more we actually increase the risk that one day this country will become ungovernable. We cannot continue to postpone empowering the majority.
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It can be done for minorities like in Europe, but in South Africa we cannot keep putting it off because we are trying to empower the majority. We run the risk that one day a majority will say, “This democracy isn't working. Let's take matters into our own hands.” Therefore, what they are trying to do carries great risk in the future.
Jeremy Maggs: The government insists these new targets are not quotas. But it is a form of affirmative action. What do you understand about that statement?
Kuganki Matabane: Well, I think they're just playing with words. Because you need to start by explaining the problem. What problem are we trying to solve? We are trying to repeal employment reservations and other laws of the past that basically excluded the majority. That is the question statement.
So how do you solve that problem statement? Solve the problem by making sure you enact laws and regulations that overturn it.
By the way, it is recognized by the Constitution. So what happens when they become cowards and try to do everything in their power to benefit those who were previously advantaged, while failing to benefit those who were previously disadvantaged? We don't really know what you're trying to do. That's not a sustainable solution to the problem.
Jeremy Maggs: So, finally, if it's not a sustainable solution, do you think it will eventually be legally challenged?
Kuganki Matabane: Yes, there is a possibility that you could be sued legally. We will also consult and consider what needs to be done on our side and ensure our constituents are taken into account. But anything is possible in South Africa. If people are not satisfied with any law, they have the right to make it consistent with the Constitution. But for us, the government is supposed to leverage its majority and enact laws to reverse past imbalances, but it is trying to be too lenient to minorities and those who have benefited from the past. That won't work. Please help someone.
Jeremy Maggs: Well, you've made your stance very clear. Thank you very much to Mr. Kganki Matabane from the Black Business Council for joining us.
