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JEREMY MAGGS: Hello everyone. I’m calling this the ‘Rubber Hits the Road’ edition. Rudi Dicks is the head of the Project Management Office in the private office of the president. He has a big job. He’s responsible for supporting the implementation of the Presidential Jobs Summit Framework Agreement, the President’s Youth Employment Initiative, as well as – and here’s the important part – unblocking regulatory challenges that impact on employment and economic growth.
Just by way of background, in his previous role he was a deputy director-general at the Department of Planning, Monitoring, and Evaluation, so he really sits right in the middle of the Fix South Africa debate.
So welcome to the FixSA podcast here on Moneyweb. I’m Jeremy Maggs and, just to remind you, we ask our guests every fortnight how we can make things better, how do we improve matters, how in the shortest space of time can we become a competitive and successful nation?
Rudi Dicks, a very warm welcome to you and thank you for agreeing to do this. As I’ve just mentioned in my introduction, you sit in a unique position on the biggest possible scale and you deal with big projects. What do you think needs fixing?
RUDI DICKS: Thanks, Jeremy, for inviting me along, and also thanks to the listeners.
Quite a bit needs fixing. We need to be frank and honest.
You’ll recall when we launched Operation Vulindlela [in October 2020], it wasn’t exact as a measure of what we need to fix, because when we did that modelling right on the five areas, we said we need to fix energy supply, we need to fix ports and logistics, we need to fix bulk water, we need to sort out our visa systems for both tourism and work visas, and we need to fix telecommunications.
Now, those five areas are quite phenomenal and important to fix, because when we did our modelling, as I said, we realised that if we do fix [those], that will add about 3% to 3.5% on [the] growth baseline.
So those are important areas and I think that still remains the biggest challenge.
Our biggest challenge right now for economic growth – for inclusive growth, for employment, for investment – is fixing our energy challenge and ensuring that we reduce and eventually eliminate load shedding and getting past that to work and to improve on efficiencies. That’s the main focus that I think we should be looking at right now.
JEREMY MAGGS: Those are all big issues – energies, port, water, visas and telecoms – and obviously energy is the one that worries us all. Before we deep-dive into that, do you think that we have the right mindset, the right philosophy, the right approach to getting this right, because you will agree there is just so much despondency right now. It almost seems too big a hill to climb.
RUDI DICKS: Jeremy, there is a history to this and I think that what we’ve seen during the state capture years is a complete decimation, and I’ve seen this myself.
I was there during those times we developed a very capable state at some point in time. We were on top of our game to support implementation. We were partnering with the private sector.
The decimation of the public sector – and I’m not talking only about national and provincial government, but I’m talking about the quasi sector, the SOEs, the entities that are there – has had a significant impact.
What we are seeing is a slight improvement, and the continued improvement, of the ability for us to develop the capacity and to be able to deliver.
The mindset has to be about citizens. It has to be about how best we can deliver on services, how best we can get economical, how best we can support poor people.
That mindset I think is something that largely many people [are] critical about. But in the work that we’ve been doing in the last two to three years, we see that changing.
It’s painstaking, it’s labour-intensive, it’s getting people to see things very differently. It’s getting people aligned. It’s building that trust and partnership with citizens and communities, but also with buildings. And for me, I think it’s coming through. It’s going to take many, many years, though, but we have to get South Africa working. We have to get the public service having a different mindset in supporting service delivery and supporting partnerships and collaboration.
But you also have to get society to support us. And that’s important. For me I think this is going to be an ongoing task and it doesn’t happen in a vacuum. It has to happen when we do deliver on things, and this is going to be the important task for us and what we are about.
JEREMY MAGGS: You raised two issues. One is a negative and one is a positive. I want to put to you, first of all, you talked about in the recent past ‘us falling off our game’.
How do we or how did we fall off our game in that respect? Was it entirely because of the scourge of corruption, or was there more to it than that? That’s the first question on the negative side.
The other thing which you say to me is that we are starting to see incremental change. That’s a good thing. I want to reflect on where you see that change happening and whether it’s happening quickly enough. But where did we fall off our game? Let’s go there first.
RUDI DICKS: I think that state capture has played a significant role because what you did was to decimate the public sector, take away skilled people, take away the competent people, take away those who have worked pretty hard, [create] frustration. I think that that has been an important part.
But that’s not the only story because I think what’s critical is if one looks at the level of government. I think also that, at a level of service delivery – and I don’t have to say that that’s in the public domain – when we look at the auditor-general report on the state of local government, for instance, and our ability to address, for example, basic services, these are important factors that have been there, a slow decrease in the ability for us to be able to ensure that we meet basic services. And we see that dysfunctional municipalities are focused on all that.
So I think it’s a confluence and a combination of different factors and the state capture period did not help.
I also think that now, if one looks at it from a generational point of view, we had democracy in 1994. We are kind of one generation into our democracy. And in a sense what does happen if one looks at the political economy of many of those who have moved from an anti-colonial period through to democracy, you need a kind of reset. You need to refocus what has been our major focus. We’ve done quite a bit of delivery. We needed to consolidate and we needed to look at one of the areas of growth going forward.
And I think that’s a useful way of trying to think about where we’re at right now. A reset, an ability to be able to refocus, to rebuild, and to be able to say this is the kind of objective to look for.
JEREMY MAGGS: You talk about the fact, Rudi Dicks, that we are starting to see change happen, whereas the pull-through is very slow. We are not seeing evidence of that in terms of job creation, in terms of economic growth and general investor confidence.
RUDI DICKS: Yes. I think for me it is going to take some time, Jeremy. I don’t think it’s going to be something that [happens] overnight. We have to build confidence and trust.
Let me use a good example. Our partnership with the private sector, in particular organised business, is a bit patchy and I think the president, for instance, made a concerted effort during the course of last year to develop collaboration.
Now announcing a collaboration, announcing 140 CEOs who are partnering with government, is not going to make changes.
It is us actually working through those issues, those three things as the core things, just the logistics and crime.
So for me, I think there’s a level of positivity in the collaboration. We [just] have to move much faster.
We have to make sure that we measure our deliverables and ensure that the impacts are felt much quicker.
So it’s not going to be quick, but I think that there is a full commitment between ourselves as government at this end and the private sector on that collaboration. And I think the mere fact that the private sector can speak positively about that, and where we go into global forums, where we go into local forums, I think that’s the messaging that has come through.
Of course, there are going to be instances where there are going to be negatives and still messaging critical of it, but it’s important. That’s a society. We are a noisy society and criticism is important. We need to fix and make sure that we move along and consolidate and build onto that.
JEREMY MAGGS: Do you think the private sector is as buoyant as perhaps you are suggesting? You talk about a patchy relationship that exists, and I accept that. Why is that? Is it a trust issue or is there more to it?
RUDI DICKS: I think it’s largely a trust issue. I think it’s important that we need to be quite clear around the role of the private sector; our economy is designed in that particular way where the state plays an important function and role as a development entity, as a state that sees the importance of delivery on basic needs, on social infrastructure, on basic education – providing all sorts of different interventions to support poor people, but at the same time also delivering on growth for that to be able to happen.
And I think it’s quite important that we signal first and we need to have a good understanding of the role of the private sector.
And I think, largely, if we are able to express that, are able to signal that, that’s where trust becomes a big thing. You can only build trust by having the collaborative effort, and that’s important for us.
So I do think a large part of the distrust, a large part of it is that the conversations are broadly just about issues of economic growth without focusing on it. That’s why I like the way that we develop that partnership.
I’ve spoken to business leaders and I’ve spoken to colleagues within government, and I think the uniqueness of that partnership that specifically focuses on key deliverables is something that can enhance that trust and can say to society broadly: ‘We can work together’. There’s a common interest of ensuring that we end our electricity insecurity. There’s a common interest to ensure that we improve efficiencies of port and rail. That’s important.
We have to do similarly for other parts of society, including communities where local government has had an impact on it and that is kind of important for us.
So it’s not just with the private sector, but it’s also with communities and with society broadly.
I dare say this Jeremy. I don’t think that all the businesses – and I think you’ve got the top CEOs – but the rest of the business, small- and medium-sized owners, have to see that, and that for them is going to be important; that they have to be confident enough.
So it’s important for us to build on this and be able to cascade that to the small and medium-sized, to those businesses that run this economy, that make sure that they get the jobs in.
And perhaps at that level, the level of confidence is not sufficient and hasn’t cascaded through. We need to build on that.
JEREMY MAGGS: All right, let’s talk about that cascading to smaller business in just a moment. But would you concede business’s frustration sometimes that government moves too slowly?
RUDI DICKS: Oh, absolutely. Even among ourselves, we concede that we need to move at a greater level of speed; the president makes that really clear on many occasions – that for us we need to move much faster.
We need to be much more efficient. Where we lack experience and expertise, bring them in outside of the public service. So absolutely, I think that’s quite critical. That’s why I think for us right now, we need to ensure a greater level [of speed].
The [various]… projects that we’ve done was trying to show, many of them –
Let’s take the spectrum. We’ve been debating the spectrum issue, on whether we auction spectrum or not, and that’s 4G and 5G spectrum, for almost two years, right? It took us all of a year-and-a-half.
Now of course many people will say ‘Why don’t you do it sooner?’ Well, again, context matters, but we did it. When we started at the end of 2020 with the … project, by 2021 and 2022 we were able to auction that.
The implications are quite amazing – to see the level of investment, prices being brought down, efficiency in the system for digital and tech.
So yes, we have to move with speed and we can do that. There is no stopping us from doing that.
JEREMY MAGGS: But we’re not, and part of your job, Rudi Dicks, is unblocking regulatory challenges that exist – in order to achieve that speed and efficiency that you refer to. What is your unit doing in order to expedite that?
RUDI DICKS: The one area that we’re trying to do [it], of course, is to ensure that we deal with those five areas in Operation Vulindlela, and announcing those changes doesn’t necessarily mean that the country …
Let’s use 2022 as a good example. When we made the change to the Electricity Regulation Act to allow for better generation – [for the] thresholds to change, and completely removing [the need for a licence to produce power of 100MW or less] – for six months we couldn’t understand why these projects that everybody asked for were not being announced.
Read: Companies can produce up to 100MW of power – Ramaphosa
What we did was to set up a Red Tape Unit that eventually morphed into an energy one-stop shop.
That energy one-stop shop is now run by the dtic [Department of Trade, Industry and Competition]. We initiated that in partnership with the private sector. And there was a whole set of regulatory hurdles, from land use to environmental impact assessments, to the registration process itself – which was 90 days [and] has been reduced on average to 19 days; at [regulator] Nersa – for getting grid access, for instance. We did that.
And similarly I think we want to ensure that that happens elsewhere. The president announced in 2022 also the setting up of the Red Tape Unit and of course Sipho Nkosi was heading that.
We are focusing on a whole set of issues related to visas, for example, tourism, and public permits for drivers.
Read: Home Affairs slammed for chasing away ‘swallow’ visitors
We are looking at setting up a whole set of other areas also to be able to deal with the red tape.
It’s simply trying to get that kind of thinking and change, as you said, the attitude around wanting to ensure that we deliver services as quickly as possible.
We started this and I think what we need to do is ensure that we roll and cascade it out, as I’ve said.
But they are all pockets of success, Jeremy, and I think that’s what we need to build on.
JEREMY MAGGS: I’m not denying that you and your colleagues are committed, and that the work is happening, but there is a sense that South Africans are not feeling and seeing that progress.
RUDI DICKS: I agree with you. I think there’s a significant perception out there among many South Africans [who are] not seeing that, and we need to make sure that the messaging gets out.
At the end of the day I think many ordinary South Africans look at it from their point of view. Do I have to stand for hours in line at the council to sort out my bills, or turn around? If there’s a water breakage, why does it take two to three days to be able to [fix] that? We must admit it.
And that’s quite important for us to be able to ensure that all these citizens also feel the changes that we do around reducing red tape for businesses at the end of the day.
A lot of work there, Jeremy. I can’t deny that. And I think it’s important for us to be able to ensure that on a provincial and local level we do see reductions in red tape – that’s the focus for us over the next few months.
JEREMY MAGGS: You’re absolutely right in saying the real problems often are at local and provincial level – and again that’s something that your office has very little control over.
RUDI DICKS: That’s also true. But nothing stops us from supporting, for example, premiers in setting up red tape units within the offices that have the same attitude and approach towards trying to reduce inefficiencies in the system.
It’s about smart tape, isn’t it? It’s about ensuring that you are able to deal with a whole set of regulatory and permitting issues at provincial and at local government levels.
So you are right. We don’t have the same amount of power as we do at national level on … authorisations where we can pressurise, for example, … to be reduced or land-use changes to be reduced. But it doesn’t stop us. And I think this is exactly why the Red Tape Unit has been set up under my office so that we are able to work with provinces and with municipalities in reducing that inefficiency. That’s the start.
We are talking with provinces, we’re talking with metros, we’re having a lot of support from different partners out there, but you can’t simply say, ‘We don’t have the power over municipalities and provinces’ and fold our hands. We have to find mechanisms to support them, to deal with those permitting and authorisations that increase inefficiencies.
JEREMY MAGGS: Rudi Dicks, as the – and excuse the metaphor – but as the spider that sits in the middle of this very complicated web, what is your biggest frustration on a day-to-day basis?
RUDI DICKS: The biggest frustration is that we are not moving fast enough, Jeremy. That’s my biggest frustration. And I see that there are significant changes and steps that we can do to expedite and move fast.
The second biggest frustration – and probably linked to that – is the frustration of many citizens on basic services; we all feel it, the fact that we are not able to, for example, eliminate or reduce load shedding and that we’re working pretty hard. It’s very frustrating, but it requires us to stay the course because, as you said, reducing load shedding and eventually eliminating load shedding so we can become energy secure is very, very important.
But I think the frustration is that we need to move much faster, much more efficiently. We need to ask for help. That’s the one thing that’s kind of faced every day. That’s my job, right, every single day saying that why can’t we make decisions and implement them as quickly as possible?
JEREMY MAGGS: Rudi, you said to me that we are a noisy country, and a thriving democracy depends on noise – and that that is a good thing. But do you think your job would be easier if there was less political noise and anger?
RUDI DICKS: No, I don’t think so. The noise is important. You have to manage it in a manner that I think is critical. Get on with the job.
We are bureaucrats, we are not politicians. We have a job, irrespective of which political party is in power, irrespective of what we have to do.
We have to professionalise and ensure that as public servants we play the role of delivery and implementation, that we deliver the services to all the people, that we create opportunities for business and small businesses; that we see growth.
So I think it could not be different. I think it’s the nature of South Africa.
I would not want to sit in a quiet society where people all say to you, ‘Wonderful job, wonderful job, keep it up’. We want to hear the noise. It’s what makes us. It’s makes us then slightly sharper at the edge on how we need to deliver. And we need to manage it. That’s going to be critical.
This year is an election year. Do we stop services? Do we stop the noise? No, of course not. Do we stop our ability to implement what we’ve committed to? No, no, no. We continue, whether it’s in this term or in the next term.
JEREMY MAGGS: You referenced a moment or two ago the importance of asking for assistance, asking for help. We are not very good at that as a country. Why?
RUDI DICKS: It’s a strange thing that I can’t quite figure out – why we don’t ask when we have quite high levels of expertise [in the country].
I don’t have an answer for that. But more recently we have been quite open in asking for help.
The fact that we have people we will be deploying and have already deployed at Eskom – experts that are engineers that have worked at Eskom for many, many years, that have gone and experienced globally and have come back and offered their services and said ‘Look, I have this level of experience on what to do with this power station or that power station; I was there 10, 15 years or 20 years ago’ – [demonstrates this].
Similarly for Transnet. Transnet has this thing that ‘Once you are rail person, you are a rail person for life’. Ports also.
So I can’t answer that, but I think what we had is an opportunity where you actually see that partnership being unfolded.
And quite interestingly in the last few weeks, Jeremy, when we were trying to deal with the backlog of the congestion at the ports, this is partly [where] the partnership with the private sector [came in].
Read:
Durban container port making headway in clearing backlog of vessels
Transnet trains collide, shutting SA’s coal export line
Or the fact that you are able to deal with the unfortunate incident of the locomotives crashing on the north corridor line [on Sunday, 14 January 2024].
The private sector pitched in and said ‘How do we help to remove that blockage in record time?’ By Wednesday evening the one line was accessible and by the next day both lines were accessible.
So it’s not only an important area, it’s just that we need to build on it. I suppose it goes back to the issue of trust, right? Is there intent, and is it self-interest? Is it because people want to help because it’s for themselves? I think we need to get beyond that; there are genuine people who would want to help, and they’re offering their services – some of them pro bono, for instance. So let’s build on that.
I think, again, we can speak about the partnership that the president has initiated. Tens of different people have offered and are being put through supporting SOEs and government departments. There’s a conversation that we are having on the backlog of visas, for example, and visa processes, and the private sector has put up their hands and said, ‘We can offer services to try and get rid of that backlog’ – and that would have a significant impact.
So again, I think it’s how we manage that, how we get that going, and showing that South Africans do care and that all of us are able to help each other.
JEREMY MAGGS: I want to come back to a point you raised a little earlier about the importance of small and medium businesses. You rightly say that you’ve got the big chief executive officers. If they don’t always agree with you, they are at least talking and sitting in the same room. But that’s not happening with smaller businesses, which are often described as the engine or the turbine of the South African economy.
You spoke about a cascade strategy. What is that?
RUDI DICKS: It’s important that we create a thriving environment for SMMEs to grow. You are right. It’s the engine of our economy. That’s where the jobs are being created, the hundreds of thousands. It’s not going to be the big employers. That’s where the investment and the risk-taking is going to take place. That’s where we have to get them to get authorisations done. Cascading that would be for us to be able to ensure that we do the most basic [things].
How do we do what we do at a national level when we engage with big business and the big investors on improving efficiency and [reducing] red tape – how do we do that for businesses that are in one municipality that are frustrated around water services or the roads that are not working?
That’s the cascading effect – that we are able to impact municipalities and provinces where those small businesses [are located], where there’s one firm that employs 10 to 50 people; and there are hundreds of thousands, millions of them in actual fact, and all of them will employ that number of people.
That’s what we are talking about – how we introduce the efficiency across the system and not only for big business, so that we’re able to do that.
The big focus right now for them is energy, energy insecurity. They don’t have money to buy big generators. Some of them have, of course, systems to support [them]; investments in the rooftop bounce-back scheme is one of them, and there are other incentives that are provided too.
So how do we also make resources available so that we support small businesses?
Anyone that runs, for example, and has three or four people, that runs a [beauty] parlour – as soon as the electricity is gone your money’s gone. You are not able to take in customers. Rooftop, PV, generators [have] to be bought, all those kind of things.
That’s the important stuff – the combination of resources that can be done through the fiscus and ensuring that we introduce efficiencies and systems to be able to ensure permitting and authorisation. That’s what I’m referring to.
JEREMY MAGGS: Let’s finish with this. There’s the old cliché that you can’t manage something if you can’t measure it. Let’s talk the very short term. Let’s talk 2024. After this comprehensive conversation that we’ve had, how would you define some successful goals, measure your success?
RUDI DICKS: Stabilising and turning the corner of our freight logistics system – Transnet being at the centre. That for me is the most important part.
I think there’s a level of stabilisation creeping in, although there’s still a high level of unreliability in the Eskom performance.
But if we can in this year significantly reduce load shedding and end it, that would be an important success for me going forward.
JEREMY MAGGS: Rudi Dicks, thank you very much for that frank and honest assessment of where we are in South Africa right now and what it takes to fix it.
My name is Jeremy Maggs. Thank you for listening to the FixSA podcast right here on Moneyweb.
Listen to previous FixSA podcasts here.
